Cryptocurrency Crash and Interview with an NFT collector

Cryptocurrency Crash and Interview with an NFT collector

Cryptocurrency Crash and Interview with an NFT collector

Episode 9

Welcome back to “The Valuart Podcast”: a weekly appointment with art, crypto art & technology.

In this episode, we talk about the crypto crash and the downfall of all cryptocurrencies: is a manipulation by the big whales? We continue our discussion about a new experimental social media project called Loot, which brings people, stories, and words to the center. In the second part of the podcast, we talk to Jonathan Felix, an NFT collector who managed to grab the Bored Apes.

Listen to the specific part

Cryptocurrency crush
SEC regulation
Loot Project
Vitalik Buterin AMA
Snow Crash book
Engine NFT building
Interview with Johnatan Felix

Episode Transcript:

the valuart podcast do not adjust your sex ladies and gentlemen i'm not eddie he is gallivanting around the world and he'll be back next week me and izzy are covering for him but don't worry we will seamlessly transition into an interview he did with joe who's a board 8 yacht club owner i believe but he may have sold and gone to live in the caribbean so that might not have happened um izzy do you know where eddie is do we know where eddie is i i actually didn't catch where eddie is but he's definitely somewhere interesting so he's going to have to tell us next time mysterious man mysterious eddie that's that should be his new name mysterious eddie so two introverts doing a podcast now if that isn't a used case of nfts i don't know what is one of the best use cases i've seen so i think a good place to start i just have coin market cap open in front of me now yes and if i oh my gosh it is red red red red red red red red 20 25 down i have found i found a green one and there is a green one so selena no even the mighty solano is down oh because until yesterday it was up okay in the last 24 24 hours but apart from that oh and from the protocol i don't know what neo protocol neither i haven't checked that one out but other than that i'm yeah down to number 60 70 the more they're all i know what's happened and that's something that i i actually um you know because i always um write my newsletters towards like um sunday and monday right and in my newsletter you're gonna see i was like oh the market is thriving right like it's it's going so well it rolls wasn't it yes it was exactly it was going so so well um and and i wanted to ask your opinion today mark what you think about this crash i think i it's like been manipulated in my opinion like the market because what a coincidence with el salvador right and bitcoin yesterday and everything crashing so i don't know i feel like it's kind of been manipulated yeah well like you you front page news i think the el salvador was front page news on the mainstream press so yeah however fleetingly that it's going to be worth a few thousand isn't it on bitcoin um i was reading it there's quite a lot there's low liquidity on the exchanges so a lot of the big whales are selling taking profits that's just cascading across the market and that's partly why but i don't really understand why there's so much enthusiasm so much excitement about el salvador it pushed up the prices and now it's crashed it must be people taking profit i guess absolutely the reason why i i think it's something yeah i i think it's manipulated kind of you know from like you said the big whales but not like whales like regular people like us but the huge whales then you know also yeah like the i think i don't know and i i think there's definitely something political behind it um and then you see also these days suck right with the uni swap labs and also with coinbase now uh there's been um also some tweets this morning about coinbase going into detail so after the the dip you know um the president was actually pretty he didn't take it too bad actually he he tweeted that they they bought the dip so he he was pretty he took it with his philosophy let's just say that exactly el salvador definitely bought the dip so they didn't take it that bad you know so even if it was manipulated good for them yeah it's always good to buy the dip you know so you can see the positive side of that uh and then other than that uh you know talking about sec and uni swap this morning uh brian armstrong on twitter um actually wrote a lot about his relationship with sec and what's going on with coinbase so we'll be seeing something interesting there too is this following on from the xrp yes this is the yes the sec case the sec i call it sec how do you call it and what do you know any more details on what they are what's happening or what what the case is is this a case against coinbase possibly yeah so it started out with you know we've heard about sec lately a lot um and they just last week it happened with uni swap labs they wanted to regulate um the crypto world right it's been like that since 2018 they want to regulate um all cryptos so now they're really looking at the major exchanges so they're looking they started looking at uni swap laps and now they're looking at coinbase but we'll be seeing more of that definitely so the sec is i know xrp has been in their headlights for a couple of years hasn't it and there's there i don't know how that is at the moment but i i saw that polkadot might be in advisors as well and some other platforms which is is is it is it worried should we be worried is he so the fact is that already a month ago um chairman gary genser had already been talking about how you know sec no matter how decentralized um d5 projects are he mentioned that he you know the agency agency would be able to regulate them so that is definitely their goal we'll we'll be seeing more of them not in other d5 projects but um you know like i mentioned in and also my newsletter uh also in 2018 the crypto lawyers you know they're already prepared for this so i don't think we should be too too worried and worst case scenario is that we might sing and an exodus right of many projects to other countries and that would just like be worse for in my opinion for a u.s economy so that's my opinion what do you think mark i think short term it's not great it's obviously going to put people off coming in it's going to lower the prices there's going to be a lot of food is it i think long term the space has to have regulation of some sort or it doesn't if it will have regulation of some sort so long term it will weed out a lot of the trash i think somebody's in parties will bite the dust unfortunately i think yeah but long term from what i've read i think that there will be need to be some kind of regulation and this will help it but short term it's not good that's my yeah and an educated opinion on that yeah no i definitely agree and you know the fact that it's not you know an industry that's that mainstream right now you know like just now a lot of people are starting to get into crypto this might scare them off a little bit so i definitely understand in that perspective but i guess in these cases you know it only time will tell but definitely definitely agree with you we'll see but uh always going to keep that positivity only time will tell i'll leave it there and only time will tell for the next talking point cardano so um i don't know if you saw about this so cardano it all-time highs incredible fury almost about cardano it's going to 10 10 before christmas 15 and then it dipped and something's gone potentially wrong so i'm going to read a couple of tweets so the bulk of the criticism was about cardano's so-called concurrency issues on the recently launched alonso test net essentially difficulties around multiple users interacting with the protocol at the same time so that makes sense i read a few there's a couple of tweets i found interesting because people seem to love cardano or they seem to hate it it doesn't seem to be any middle ground and there seems to be a lot of altcoin nationalism about these projects and some of them call out from this so there's a tweet from um anthony sasano he's got 120 000 followers on twitter and he's an angel investor interestingly he's an ethereum educator which might have something to do with it and his tweet was seriously six years of peer-reviewed research and a 90 billion dollar plus market cap later and the first dap on cardano can't even do con current transaction processing also known as the very thing you need for d5 i don't know anything about the alonso test net in i don't think this is good news and we can see that in the price yeah cardano community is rallying obviously um i don't know if he said anything yet what do you think have you seen this are you [Music] i i have and um don't get me wrong i i've loved the cardano project but uh these days i am discussing whether to move all my uh cardano on another project so this this has been a thought of mine in these days actually were you now first before the news of the the test net problems or i've been deciding it like over i would say sunday on sunday so pretty near the news but just um also looking at the market cap and everything you know a project that i'm thinking about moving it towards and i already have invested in this project but i just like kind of want to put more in it is uh the one i talked to you about so elrond network e-gold yeah so i think i'll be moving it towards that just because i see a lot of potential in it but not that i wouldn't move that i'm not going to move back to um you know my dear ada in the future but i just want to see how how things are going also the new releases because like you know it is an important point and you can see also in the prices right now i mean there's been a general crash for all tokens in the moment on your lron project you should check out a website called marginal revolution and there's a guy named tyler cohen uh t-y-l-e-r-c-o-w-e looking at it right now i know he's he's an advisor so his marginal revolution is kind of his he's a bit of an economic guru he's very famous he's very respected but i know that he's advising on elrond he i don't know what his capacity is but he if he's an advisor or consultant but i think if he is in as an advisor or whatever his role is that's a good sign i bought my first eagle towards february and it's just been uh also on twitter it's just like a great community and project and it's not like a project that is you know you see all these projects that are on twitter like led by hype by the team and everything instead of this project i really see how they don't like to hype their community too much they just do their things they they have a roadmap they respect it and i really love it to be honest have you checked it out mark i knew that this guy was into it and i it's been at the back of my mind to look into it a bit more but no i'm not familiar you you should so the cryptocurrency market is doing lots of things that it does but meanwhile in nft land there is oh my gosh yeah and people are bidding 19 million on a board at yacht club at southern beach and yeah no no no worries in an ft space have you seen any interesting projects or any i crazy i have i have mark and i wanted to ask you if you've checked out too uh the loot project um have you does it ring a bell object yes bye explain more yes by dom hoffman creator vine uh that one is exploding um i don't know if you've checked it out you like you've seen it on twitter and everything just it it so to your eyes it just looks like um either black background or white which is like a list of words right oh i saw this okay i was on the open sea on yes today and i saw this and did i and i just you're like what is this what a load of what is the list of random like i was just checking and i had a spare moment and i i just saw it and then i didn't think any more about it i actually got a message from a friend yesterday or the day before telling me the world's ending people are selling random lists of words for 100 they're not that random well can you explain yes exactly so i and that was kind of like my first reaction to you know during one of our last episodes we were talking about um the rock right that was being sold like rock nfts and we're like oh my gosh like what is like going on um but loot is actually you know initially i had the same impression too but it's actually pretty cool um so it was when was it it was like last friday tom hoffman creator vine tweeted about this new project and he did nothing then either than just like list a few details and a link to a contract and that contract lets you create this list of words right um so what is this list of words so men not wait let's forward let's not forward let's go a little bit back um after he tweeted this you know how many were reproduced at least eight thousand in three hours so we've got an open sea just like blessing so these loots are like eight traits of these supposed like um creatures characters i would say they call it like the adventure gear so the first one should be like a a weapon the second um body armor and so on so every trait is different in these nfts that are reproduced right and what's cool is that other nfts that are let's say reproduce already like artwork they can't be read by smart contracts whereas this one can so people can actually transform this into something else and kind of like put a value on that so you you've if you go on twitter right now you can see that out of these lists of words people are actually like creating characters like some artworks and some people actually even recreated a currency out of it so there is a utility behind it and what's cool about it is that you can actually like give space to your imagination that's like kind of explained like what i understood and i think it's insane i i have one here so it corresponds with what you said a ghost wand of enlightenment a divine robe a silk hood a grim bite plated belt of power plus one shoes chain gloves amulet bronze wings so those are the items on the list correct yes those are the items people make nfts of those list items or anything really that can be as creative as they want exactly and there's like some people that um you know are actually going to be creating some series out of these with these characters um so in my head like of course you know they have like these armors and like some things that kind of bring me back to the medieval um so i can like see uh these kind of like i don't know even some i can see like all these characters and like their armor kind of like having battles and maybe turning it into a game supposedly with a play to earn game you know there's just like so many things that i was like thinking that they can do with this um what do you think do you like after i told you a little bit about it what what do you see in terms of potential well the floor price is nine ether so there's definitely some financial events um i i i'm gonna have to look into it more on the it says loot is randomized adventurer gear generated and stored on chain stats images and other functionality are intentionally admitted for others to interpret feel free to use loot in any way you want exactly open to interpretation i would have to look into it exactly i know i didn't i didn't um also because like i i believe and this is what i understood somebody like if i misunderstood please comment below um i think you need to like have some dev skills there right i definitely would not know how to transform that into a beautiful piece of art or um you know like a series or anything like that unfortunately i don't have the deaf skills um speaking of which i would love to study that a little bit if i do find time uh but so i think that you do require a certain degree of deaf skills to do that would be cool we could create like our value art um you know characters and do like a series maybe we do our podcast like with our recreated like i don't know characters out of that but but we have to learn more it seems it seems complex and beautiful at the same time exactly yeah you see it it seems to go it seems to go into like you said gaming play to it it's gonna it's going to be part of the gaming movement [Music] that's that's where i see it going definitely gaming uh metaverse um so i i don't know like but definitely i understand i guess about it next week with let's try and explain it to eddie next week oh my gosh like i i really wanna know about it maybe eddie already bought it he's like yeah i already have my bag of loot like yeah sure he's he's loaded up um i just said so we'll talk about that again this week there was something that so i don't know if you saw this but vitalik bhutan isn't quite ready to come on the valuart podcast um i'm sure he will you know in due course i'm sure he will the next best thing is he did an ama on twitter um i missed it and so it was only to the people he follows so that it's like 200 220 or 30 people he follows open invitation to ask him questions and uh it's easy to find but i'll put the link in the blog and there was something it was i don't know once you get into his mind you're probably not going to get out of his mind he's obviously an incredibly um another dimension of intelligence he follows some very good people so the first person to ask him a question was elon musk and he asked him what is love and then vitalik in response to that i thought but and then they spoke about people asking questions about the nation-state technology family values fame like all of these good things but there's also quite a lot about blockchain ethereum and that so i've taken a few questions from his ama which may or may not be interesting they might i don't know so we'll see if perhaps we can see if you agree with vitalik is he okay yeah so hit the one of the questions so okay which i don't know who posed these questions i didn't write it down check it out on twitter which ethereum use case case has surprised you the most what do you think his response to that question guys oh my gosh there's so many use cases i mean you can build so many things what's the craziest thing at the moment we just spoke about them well yeah all the nfts i mean who would have expected that then another question so this one there was loads of vocabulary that was just oh this guy so what privacy preserving technology do you think will be the most widely adopted by the majority of netizens in the next 20 to 30 years his answer was i expect zk snarks to be a significant revolution as they permeate the mainstream world over the next 10 to 20 years zero knowledge proofs so instead of it's like the schrodinger's cat of cryptocurrency and so you can prove something okay by not revealing the information so if you wanted to sign into a website for example i think instead of giving all your details okay you could use this this zero knowledge proof way to do anything but without actually giving any of or revealing any of your details to i kind of like she's asking for this i'm kind of confused so i'm gonna have but does he like write about this because i've been like looking into his blog lately he must have written about this right yeah and on on the ama he mentions it quite a few times in answering the questions zero knowledge proofs seems to be where his mind is some of his mind is at the next question is because i've taken the plunge no yes yes yes i still have to read it but i have read some experts on it um so so i think if we're going to talk about the metaverse i don't know if the viewers don't know this is if you read an article about the metaverse they mentioned this before no crash verse was coined from this book so i can actually read the first paragraph where the word is used so hero's not actually here at all he's in a computer-generated universe that his computer is drawing onto his goggles and pumping into his earphones in the lingo this imaginary place is known as the metaverse hiro spends a lot of time in the netherlands it beats the out of the new story so i love it that's that's uh neil stephenson's first uh description of the metaverse on twitter someone asked vitalik what he thought was the metaverse how do you define the metaverse metallic he said as far as i can tell people use it to refer to either the internet plus a super immersive virtual reality or the internet plus a shared state so objects that can be moved between platforms and then he speaks about ethereum being used for that second part okay so not too in fact his is his vision of the metaverse is not too dissimilar to yeah so do you see well of course there is a lot of chat also um like on web you know 3.0 do you think that we're already there with ethereum do you think that that's going to be like dominant protagonist i i'm not anywhere near experience enough to know the answer that it will play a part i think that it's a lot of the platforms now so a lot of the gaming platforms a lot of the metaverse platforms and ethereum and the next blockchains which can make nfts and make it all work will be part of the initial phase that's true i think i think more players will come into the game i think there's going to be a big battle between the the bayern moths of facebook as amazon and google and mm-hmm oh boy yeah and how they play the decentralized things and how like roblox and fortnite and how are they where are they going to choose to go are they going to choose to side with the big giant so are they going to go with all the with the ethereum and all the blockchain developers like i think they will play a part in it but initially of course ethereum has to play a part because at the moment yeah exactly has just proved that it's not so easy although maybe the solano is there i was about to say that i was just about to say that and you know i've never even um i missed out on kind of on uh do you go like i call it solana but i i actually didn't invest in a time ago because not that i don't know i didn't see that much value in it and now i'm kind of like now i do and i'm kind of eating my hands but i i was just thinking about the other day like this is i've always thought like cardano the main competitor of ethereum right but now i'm starting to really look at celina like i don't think you're alone in that as well i think a lot of people uh missed out on it but i guess we're still in time i'm looking at that uh market cap but i don't know just like investing it right now is kind of scary for me just because of the growth it's had right but then that links to another we'll do like one more question from the dalek because that links to it because one of the questions this is a good one i think and one we can all understand if you would assess in terms of legitimacy a crypto project for investment what would you look for what would you check to make you feel reasonably comfortable it's not scammy well what do you look for and then we'll see if what you look for compare is similar to what vitalik recommends oh me what do you look for in a crypto project is it well definitely i i mean i look first at the value of the project and see if it's something that i like and that i envision in the future because all these projects you know um i think that they're gonna be building like they're gonna be our future right um so i look at definitely the utility um then i look at the team and the communication of the team uh like i mentioned first i don't like those ones that hype too much uh it kind of scares me right because i really see it as a pump and dump so i kind of like stay away from those ones and definitely the community so these are things that i look like i i see it kind of like a 360 degree and they're all things that intertwine with one another so if i find a project that has like the perfect balance of all these factors then you know i'm ready to to invest in it what about you and whatever what if it's well i think your answer is better than vitaliks although vitalik did just have like two sentences on twitter vitalik says find projects that are trying to do something meaningful so the world would be better in a way that normal people can appreciate if the project succeeds and that has sound economics it's not all propped up by short-term money [Music] printing yeah i think your answer is better thank you thank you well definitely like uh well definitely i mean i yeah i want a project to like you know be better for for our world but that kind of like goes back to like i said i i envision if i envision our future it's definitely something that needs to be doing better um so yeah what do you think mark enough about like oh to me these questions what about you totally the same i think in the short time that we've been doing this podcast the most important thing i've taken from it in terms of what could work and what couldn't work is the use case it has to have a function and i think we've seen in the past again in since we started this podcast really how a few months ago you could mint an nft and sell it and you didn't even have to have a presence really you could just create something and in three months now you have to have an awesome roadmap you have to have awesome art you have to have secondary utility it has to be worth something outside of this value chain and i think you know i don't think it has to be world changing as much as vitalik says but like you said it has to have a function it has to have another use case um long term and i exactly no meme coins yeah in nfts that's what i look for and in crypto like you i think team's very important i think very extreme yeah longevity the oh and the name it has to have a cool name that's true like i was like the other day i was like why didn't like i don't know even i was thinking about the name solano it was like solana solana you know in italian solana means like when you get uh really like sunburnt i thought it had something to do with the sun okay so don't get me like in italian it means like when you get like a really bad like sunburn i think there is a an analogy or something a lesson in there somewhere exactly i'm feeling burnt now that i didn't get it cool name basically basically i just if it's got a cool name if it's called something like compound or just reading some of these names on the coin market cap theta fuel holo nem zenfin stacks harmony you know yeah celsius i love celsius one of my favorite what celsius i picked that random what is celsius oh you know you don't know celsius um so practically on celsius it's kind of like a bank but it's not a bank so it's like the decentralized bank right so i you can do a lot of things like you can um oh my gosh how do you i can't remember in english if you say borrow lent i'm having like a senior moment here so practically if you play library you borrow a book exactly yeah okay perfect yeah sometimes i get confused like in italian everything so with one of the logos of um the main statements of celsius is debank yourself right and practically i love it you can get like their t-shirts and all their merch and celsius is one of like the most stable projects i see out there so practically months ago i wanted to invest in more crypto and i thought okay but why should i use my money when i can use somebody else's money to invest right and make more out of it so what would you do usually because i know what to say no not in that sense no wait wait wait okay so i looked to ask at you know one of those um lending firms or money when you want to you know invest in a project of yours or anything i didn't even ask for like a large sum of money but they didn't grant it to me and i was like whatever and so that's when i went to celsius and practically you have to of course guarantee that you're going to give them back but like the the interest that you have to like pay them back gradually like is nothing compared to the like the other firm so you're just like earn like not only do you get with the investments but when you even pay pay them back with your tokens right you don't lose anything you just like earn so i don't i don't need like the other banks in real life you look like i explained that really really bad guys but um yeah really well you've de-banked yourself it sounds like a crypto loan shark yeah very low interest exactly very very low interest i i debanked myself i was able to do other investments i couldn't at the moment and all's going great are you looking at it right now yeah well it's actually one of the few which is up in the last seven days yeah yeah celsius is like one of the ones that you'll see like it never crashes it's always pretty stable and i think that's just because a lot of people are debanking themselves and i think they've got a fair amount of the liquidity there um because the fact is that even you can um even decide to give them your tokens and get um some you know returns in that sense in in terms of uh so i i do that too with some of my tokens for example i bought like celsius back in january so i do that with like my celsius tokens i just like leave it there and yeah just even mistaking if you bought back in january you are quids in yeah yeah no uh celsius was actually my first first investment like one of my first investment no my first one was like ethereum yeah because you were looking for you found it because you were looking for a a use you were looking for a service and they provided a service which you were looking for exactly and i think it's like from celsius that i started having like a lot of fomo in the crypto space because like i told you i started getting like really into crypto uh one year ago bitcoin was my first investment right and then and i invested back in september last year and then i got there was like um do you remember towards december that it was just like started like spiking that's when i converted my bitcoin into ethereum and then from there i bought uh celsius and then i bought um then i started buying eagles and then like everything just like happened from there so that's kind of like my my experience and uh yeah are you gonna be getting like a loan from celtius now so that you can buy my crypto if i was younger with no i'm not going to be here today i'll tell you what i have looking at though if you if you want to know what i'm thinking about in terms of possible places to to to invest his engine and if they've got a new nfp coin it's been a new mft blockchain affinity and engine are i think i've said before i just although fashion is becoming part of it but i think gaming is where the immediate future lies and engine are one of the leading blockchain game builders a lot of play to earn games on engine and this new affinity is it brings the nft the ability to move nfps between games and it's all very new and i think i need to look more into it but i think yeah i'm looking at it now just study for the next like week or two i'm gonna study engine and affinity i think cool then you're gonna have to talk about that on the podcast then yeah i i'm looking at it right now but i think it's quite funny because on coin market cap it is one place behind celsius so they're in the same kind of i kind of missed it because i see a lot of yeah yeah and look into celsius too i mean i just love it do you bank yourself well i i i would love to be bank myself yeah no it's like awesome on that note is there before we pass over to eddie and josh and his board ape is there anything else you'd like to to mention or say any books or anything you've read this week or i i think you know we've covered like a lot of interesting topics i can't wait to look into also these like infinity this week and chat about that in one of the next episodes this week i i kind of like was reading a more technical book so uh for you who learned you know last time we talked about like knowing how to read the charts so i picked like trading technical analysis master class master the financial markets so it's like a little like a lot more technical it's actually like some somewhere behind there i my bookcase is still kind of like empty because i'm bringing my books little by little um can can you grab it and give us a screenshot it sounds like is it is it is it is it kind of made made simple or is it full-blown for it complicated for investors kind of terminology or is it i'm gonna have to read it again i'll be honest just because um i think i don't have like enough like finance background but i really like that the chapters like really go it like whether you were already in finance or not i think it's like a kind of um oh gosh i have like the the name in italian like it kind of like goes over um concepts that if you knew them okay it's good for you just like going over them again uh but if you're a beginner i guess you're just gonna have to like read it a couple of times just like let it kick in but but i like it but another a book that actually should arrive today and i'd like to show you guys next week is uh bitcoins and blockchains by anthony lewis uh so i'll be reviewing that one next week i'll get it today technically i like it so it's it's good to to be able to build i need to read some of these technical books build some of the foundation around the blockchain itself or yeah the blockchains themselves um excellent exactly i'm reading one of eddie's recommendations yes how is that one going at the google bus and the end of absence which is about what we were talking about the other week about the the generational cutoff between internet and no internet okay claiming what we've lost in a world of constant connection so i need yeah i'm going to read your recommendations when i finish these and get more technical absolutely yeah i'm just trying to get more technical uh lately because it's funny i used to read before like the last year i used to read like a lot of a different genre right so i used to read uh hermannessa a lot and just a lot of like philosophy so i really like went from like philosophy so like on the blockchain lately how does that feel i know it was going on because like i've done i've done something similar i haven't gone from like philosophy but i've gone from like 1970s fiction and beaten in into yeah into this and it's quite nice to be reading something totally different do you feel like you you've made a good decision i do uh but sometimes of course i do miss reading even like um the old genre that i used to read right um if i didn't work during the day then i would probably have time to read everything but i don't unfortunately uh but you know better than me right now why next year you think i'm gonna be living off my crypto like on an island is that the goal oh no i mean i think you know even if you were to become like extremely i don't know you but if i would get bored like doing nothing during well i mean reading during the day i don't know but i think i always have to have like something right to do so yeah it was great having a chat mark let's move on to their interview with eddie okay so welcome man what's up thank you for inviting me here it's great cool i'm really excited to talk to you uh first how do i address you are you joffrey yeah y'all play like what is your do you go by like your twitter handle or my name real name is jonathan felix so i my nickname joffrey is like a mix of them the first two yeah okay cool letters is giants and felix and together is joffrey joffrey okay cool and do you so you actually answered my and you're from norway and you're currently in your way all right yeah nice nice how old are you man because i have to actually know before i can see if i can accomplish this yeah okay yeah good good age yeah nice all right um well yeah like i said welcome um uh this is a bit different for the podcast i usually have like a conversation with my co-host first and then we have somebody on um to talk about tech nft art like it's always it's always something different you're you caught my attention on twitter because you you your avatar is one of the apes and uh i'm just so fascinated by the culture around this phenomenon that i wanted to talk to somebody firsthand and i don't know something about your your profile and your collection excites me so uh let's start with how you got into possession of your first ape and then we'll talk about your collection in general okay so um i first started with like nfts back in march and was first with the nba top shot and i did that for like yeah until like april may and it was quite like i didn't even notice of that because they bought a yacht club they dropped like around may but i didn't even know about the drop until like there my friend was like these shapes are so cool and at the time the price was around like three ethereum i was like this is so expensive i will like never have the money for this so i like i passed it off and like in my mind i was like i want an eighth but it was like no where there financially to be able to buy one but so you were trading top shot already at that point how how did you find out about top shot like what was your first that was just a in a discord group my friend was like these highlights are so cool and i bought a package and i got hooked like right away were you are you a fan of the nba do you follow the nba not really but the top shot actually like made my interest in the ama that's exactly their intention i think because the nba is actually behind top shot right there their main they're like one of the main partners in and pushing that so i'm sure that's what they want is like to reach a new audience of a fan so that's pretty cool but so you were trading topshop for a little while and then the you you somebody mentioned the apes and you were like oh three that's insane like i'm not gonna drop three so what was the cost of like a pack on top shot at that time and what were you comfortable trading with so the cost of the pack was like the premium packs which i ended up getting it was like 200 so it was that as well was quite much to me but uh i you know you made some great money in the start at least with the mba shot but then the market kind of tanked like after a while so i had like find new ways to interact with energies so your your approach to to the concept like when you were first discovering nfts was for speculative it was for investing basically you just wanted to make money on investing and flipping so when did you buy something other than top shot what was the first the first piece actually maybe i'll just open up your collection and see if we can we can talk about what's in there but but tell me about the transition from top shot to other other enemies well i saw the huge potential in nft so i guess i opened up twitter and i just started searching about everything i could what gave you that impression though like what was the what told you like okay you need to invest in this now was it twitter and discord it was just my guess you know after like the concept of this was just like so uh it was so amazing you know so i knew that okay tell me about that because i'm i definitely agree with you i definitely think the concept and the and the technology of nfts is incredible for artists specifically but for you as like a as like a collector what excited you in the beginning well i was like yeah cool i like the own things you know and and if the things are cool i like to own them i like to show them off to my friends and like the concept of just owning rare items it's just human nature to want to have did you collect anything before nfts were you collector of like sneakers or like trading cards or anything yeah i was a bit in sneakers i have a huge collection there as well i think there's a there's quite a bit of overlap in the in sneaker culture too like the nft especially the pfp projects like the the rarity and the community aspect and sort of the the i don't know like the bragging rights to having something and being like yo look what i've got like i think there's a lot of overlap and actually bobby hundreds who who owns who's the founder of the hundreds who just did a collaboration with the board at yacht club that to me just kind of verifies that ideas like if the hundreds which is a streetwear brand that sort of operates on scarcity is com is partnering with board apes it's like okay yeah we see an overlap here so yeah so that's that's cool like i i think i think there's definitely a lot does the community matter to you as much like does it does being in the discord channel or like being part of the twitter hysteria like excite you yeah especially in the board api's club you know yeah because the community there is so great though is the community worth it enough to not want to flip and sell your if you still have your ape right yeah right um at first i was when i first got my apples like maybe i'll sell this in the future but after having it for a few weeks i don't know if i'll ever be able to sell it no does your ape have a name no it doesn't have a name no have you considered is that not a thing that you do with the apes you don't name them it's not a part of the culture yeah i think you do i've seen people i've seen people on twitter like really take to their ape as if it's a part of their identity like one guy's ape was featured in forbes and he was like stoked about it he was as if he was featured in forbes it was like really cool um but so what is that like or what were you surprised by the community aspect of it by by the twitter community and the discord community yeah i have like maybe 200 followers on twitter before i joined the wordpress club and again like 500 or 600 more after i joined and how do you describe this to like your parents or your friends that aren't in in this world you know it's um i invested a lot of money in my so my parents were like what but oh you told them yeah i told them yeah so so i'm not i don't want you to tell me unless you want to tell me how much you invested for but like i imagine it's a shitload yeah yes 13.6 13 ethereum yeah jesus okay so but did you build your way up to that with other nft projects or did you okay so that's right take me through that take me through the like the the life cycle of your like how you started from top shot to your first ape and then uh yeah i just i'm just curious how you got your how you got there how long did it take it i started with uh my other i had some crypto savings from nba topshop and some other stuff around one ethereum i think so i just took it into my opens account and i started flipping and the turning point was the percy penguins have read about them yeah i i have heard about them and i heard i've only heard negative things though is that is there a reason for that yeah it's a well it's a bit drama you know who the owner and stuff but yeah what happened i don't really know but uh he had some skit he had done some sketchy things in the past you know okay but the penguins uh you could mint them for 0.04 yet here i think okay and then i minted 14. so you how did you find out about that series before actually like i have not seen any series available for minting everything's secondary for me because i'm not like in the in the know i guess how did you find out about pudgy penguins in a group a group chat on discord okay and called the nifty nation okay and um it's like yeah no ads but and they'll get like info about uh what types of uh nfts are releasing and when they release and and did you find that from top shot from your friends that you were you were trading with on top shot or that you were there you know if i find him on twitter that wasn't there i found on twitter in some other discord community okay so you you find pudgy penguins you meant 14 of them and then that did you at what point did you flip it like did you get out at the right time or was it pretty much got out early you know yeah [Music] but i held them to something are they still worth something now or is that like yeah yeah yeah the three ethereum i think okay that's not bad i guess i mean you make them at point zero one four you said that's crazy so you earn a little bit on pudgy penguins and then that was sort of like your stepping stone towards an ape yeah and when they dropped what were you because you said you weren't you weren't going to spend three ethel on them when you first saw them but like what what was it like at the point when you bought it when you bought the first ape it was like really relief you know yeah i have been in this space for a short time but the whole time uh like the atheist you know a good goal for me you weren't interested in trying to get one of the punks or something no because i don't think i'm not that big fan of punks so you care about the art you have you do have some preference towards the art yeah but more about the community as well because the board community is a bit better than that how would you define the the punks community like what took what turned you off to that i like that of course the developers are not like doing that much uh stuff with it it's just like punks you know and it's i don't know i don't get the good vibes can you can you tell me about the road map and what excited you about the the ape project that was like um like why is it different than the rest of them and why do you think it's so successful well of course they had like they were the first you know or um the punks were their first like crypto collection but the board raves were like the first to take it to like a membership you know so yeah i feel like it's you know their highlight conventions in the series and stuff like it's yeah they're doing a lot yeah they are what are they promising that hasn't happened yet that you're excited about like what is on the on the horizon uh i don't they have they're coming with a road map 2.0 but they have like the auction at crisis and yeah so these first so after that they will like launch a new roadmap with the news of the future of the boarded black club so i'm curious if this has sparked or piqued any interest in you for for art more like collecting traditional art maybe or is it just like these digital pieces and these communities that that interests you no for sure i have like my viewing art has changed and i don't know i don't have any physical art yet but if i find found something i like i would consider to bite more now than okay i couldn't before yeah did you see the damien hurst project the currency yeah i won the the raffle but you got i was like yeah but you didn't buy the piece no i was like ah this is too much yeah that was 2000 right yeah yeah so that was the time before the perch penguins i don't know but it was before i had like so much ethereum so i can like wow yeah so you would tweet it at somebody i did like crawl through your twitter uh feed shamdu yeah who is that and like why is that why is that guy so important to your nft endeavors he was the owner of the group i was in and ah the nifty nation yeah yeah okay okay cool so he's like sort of a a thought leader a pioneer in the space for you and uh kind of guided you how big was the group when you joined it um we were about 80 90 members oh wow it's actually smaller than i expected yeah so is he still do you still like follow his kind of instinct and gut as he comes with it like do you believe in salon or solano is it what it was that was called this new plan yeah i actually bought a beer last night yeah it was against the land drop yeah yeah was my first solana investment yeah okay cool cool i um i haven't bought anything yet i haven't i haven't collected anything yet i've been kind of waiting kind of apprehensive i'm actually working on my own series right now which uh is kind of it's intended to be a bad investment um it's kind of commentary on the culture because so i come from software i spent like 10 years in software and what i found in in tech in silicon valley specifically is like everybody moves so quickly and doesn't really stop to think about like what are they doing and why and is it helpful is it hurtful is it useful you know i mean i and i i kind of felt gross in those 10 years and i didn't really understand why and recently i've been reading and learning about the psychology of economics of like infinite growth economies of like these tech industries and i i've gotten really cynical but i don't want to be just cynical so i'm trying to do a series that will comment on this this kind of culture but in a way uh trying to shift the narrative or change it in a positive make a positive um commentary on it not our constructive criticism that's what i'm going for yeah yeah um but i don't know like how if you were to do a series of your own let's say like i don't know if you're into into creating art or or creating uh digital stuff but if you were to do a series of your own what advice would you have for somebody starting theirs in terms of promoting it in terms of getting it in front of an audience my tip would just be to you know twitter is an amazing space yeah if you are active enough um i believe that if you have a good enough quality project people will pick up because everyone is looking after like the next big thing you know yeah so people are icing back and if your art really stands out you you will get picked up by some people do you think that this is a bubble that's inevitably going to pop in at some point in the future like soon yeah i i do think so um at least most of it you know there are so many bad projects yeah that are released and people still make money but just the fact that rarity tools exists and that it's able to aggregate these projects and show you what's coming tells me it's like okay we've already started to reach probably the peak but what do you what do you think happens after that do you think that the the collectible space survives i mean obviously like the punks and the and the apes will survive this because they're bringing utility to their projects but do you think all these other projects go away and they we stop seeing new ones i think most will have a hard time but like if the internet crashed you know yeah yeah in 2000 you know then it will come back yeah some projects will have a real trouble i think it's funny to hear you talk about the dot-com bubble you weren't even alive yet remember remember in 2000 like i remember yeah yeah um that's that's really i think that's a great uh analog though i do think we're gonna i've been talking to my co-host about that i think it'll pop and people will be like ah we should have seen this coming like of course it was coming but the internet didn't go away after 2000 like it just you know pivoted and people started to understand the utility so when you when you aped in actually maybe you could define the term apedin for me because i've seen it used online and i've seen it used what it feels like to me is that it's an impulsive purchase because people are using it for anything not just for apes right it's for like any nft purchase correct so define it for me yeah you said it's quite right you know and you possibly just to buy in or you don't need to impulsively because i have my i have like thought about buying my eight but like you just you get in you know dude you just like how much research do you do before you collect something because your collection is fairly large you've got like what 200 pieces or something um some of it i do a bit research but the other one i just if i see that just buy it okay because i see other people are buying it so just jump in okay and like what are some of the pieces that you i'm going to open up i want to forget screen share i'm going to open up your collection and i'm going to ask you to like point me let's talk about this so this is recently listed so you you actually saw this earlier the rude boys one looks really cool and i was like oh maybe that will be my my first one i like the one you got but how much time did you spend thinking about this before you bought it um actually that artist is norwegian as well oh cool i heard about him by my smaller prince so i was like i'm gonna buy some of his art yeah and do you so this is something you would hold then yeah okay it says like it's listed it's not me that just listed it you know oh so you do i'm sorry explain that to me so it's listed you don't yeah but you see if there's like more owners so it's listing from other owners you can see there this yeah so collecting things on openc is not actually owning them i don't yeah you own them but there are 20 pieces of that one oh oh oh i thought these i thought what how are they non-fungible how are they unique well it's limited to 20. so okay okay so there's 20 holders of something yeah something like this yeah yeah yeah wow oh 16 owners okay did not understand that taught me something new so wow i'm gonna take a look at this then because that that excites me that you can maybe get something i like this piece a lot tell me about like here's a good question this escher piece right here which is obviously not an esher but i saw you tweet about this you said that this art is fire and i i'm a huge fan of of escher the the og escher and this is inspired by so what do you like about this and how long did it take you to find this and what what sold you on it uh my friend just sent me and linked it and i was like i don't know i'm just i'm not that good at describing art but i just like you know the piece you know had you heard about uh m.c escher before uh this or do you know who that is who the artist inspired this is oh that's really if you like this i think you would really like his work he's like one of my favorite uh artists he's actually dutch i live in the netherlands so i went to the esther palace uh last year and got to see some of his works in person and i have a piece behind me you can't see it but it's over there but i think if you're if you're into this you should check out uh esther's work it's very mathematic and artistic he's a great symbol for this sort of space uh the nft space with this like the digital art space i think i'm gonna maybe use that as a um a reference point in the future so what is the most impulsive thing in this collection that you bought or one that you kind of regret are there any that you regret or would you even hold them yeah yeah these pixel titties perhaps yeah uh it wasn't my greatest play what's been the biggest loss for you so far um do you know no i don't have track but uh because you have so many pieces i'm just gonna i'm just scrolling through just checking things oh you have are these different than fudgy penguins are these a ripoff of budgets yeah party humans this is kind of confusing so these zunks look like the crypto punks and i mean it's just pixel art obviously but they're not related right they're work-offs yeah so what what was the what was your why did you invest in those did you feel like it was just an impulsive way it was not uh i didn't think through it yeah yeah man some of these buys like those raccoons as well i actually know about bottom but no i mean the art is pretty cool yeah but uh i don't believe in the project to be honest but so you bought the raccoons you looked at the project road map and like the community after the fact yeah yeah so they were selling out so i just like tried to buy one but yeah what are some of the things you have to be concerned about when you're investing in these like what are some things that happen within the like are there signs in the discord or servers or on twitter that you're like ah this was just this was a bad idea because people aren't actually in it for the long or or they don't really care about the project well yeah i'm usually in the discourse where they are very like yeah if you it's this is worse you know to if the owners are trying to work for you know just get your money and just dump the project have you been invested in projects where that's happened yeah yeah what can you can you name one or two and like what the process is like the recent one was something called boneheads okay and they really really is like one week ago and it was like it's supposed to be a a mix of nfts and like passion brand fashion brand yeah i think but uh after so out the jet owners just dipped from the server and you they jumped in but you didn't even you haven't like heard an announcement in one week after starting out so and have you been like attempted scammed or fished or has anybody tried to like steal from you in these servers in these chats well i get like uh all the time like but in discord but like i'm not like actually been trying to get scammed but just bots you know i'm i what is your opinion on like gary vee's involvement in this and be friends i'm not invested in these friends but uh i like gary he brings more attention into the space you know but you don't feel like gary vee is sort of operating like a fluid flexible rug pulling machine like he's kind of like he'll pop into a discord server and like you'll see his handle and then people like oh gary v is here and then everybody flocks to that project and then it's like pumped and then it's gone has that happened for anything that you've been have you seen like i mean he's also supported some projects that i think needed it so that's not it's not all bad but it seems to me like kind of shady well yeah the a lot of the space is like almost all about the pumping almost because you rely on big influencers um talking about the project and if they start talking you know the project just goes wild you know yeah so it's part of the enemy culture you know to pump stuff but do you think that that's going to be an ongoing part of it or that will go away after the bubble burst i hope that goes away yeah i think it's better if this organic growth not just yeah influencers coming in and pumping projects yeah yeah i think it's kind of crazy that like mark cuban made his fortune in the dot-com bubble and and like at the perfect time like made all this money sold his company that company lost all this value and like whoever i think yahoo bought it or somebody bought it for for like a ridiculous amount of money and then lost it and then here he is again in this like with nifty gateway and uh and uh kind of just doing all this the same again uh did you see the famed ladies squad um project uh story yeah i heard uh i'm i'm not like read into it fully but i have seen some of it it was like i think you got a new owner or something there was a two there was allegedly like an all-female dev team that was behind it and then after they sold out the it was revealed that like it was actually not it was completely fake and uh the whole community kind of felt taken advantage of and then these two women took over the project or like kind of reclaimed it or stole it or something i don't know i think it was a rug pull and then they they were like no that we're not gonna let this be a rug pool we're gonna actually take over and continue bringing value we're actually having them on the podcast tomorrow so i'm excited to talk to them but yeah i i think the space has a lot of scammy kind of fishy things going on and that that to me is my big issue with with the avatar projects is there's no there's not a lot of substance behind them and people on the outside that are not just involved not that are not interested in investing and making money and maybe as artists or or collectors want to be part of something that's like going to stay around for a while they're seeing this and going that's no that's gross i don't want to be involved in that when actually there's a lot of value in nfts as a technology and there's a lot of value in these communities that are popping up to support the digital arts in this way but i don't see a lot of overlap in them i see mostly crypto people investing and mostly are people staying outside of it except for the artists that are doing the series and that are kind of taking advantage of the moment which is good for them but it kind of it kind of makes me sad that there's so much credit predatory behavior in the space yeah totally agree yeah how has your life changed since since march like tell tell me what like are you still living at home do you have like plans to move out or you like you have a car and are you doing a lamborghini like what's going on no no i'm not going to battle i'm forgiven but uh yeah i still live home yeah for the moment i have one year in school left so nice i will say at home by then that if the ap is worth more like in a few months i i'll maybe sell it and yeah do you want to do anything with that like let's imagine for a second that you sell the ape for like i'm gonna be like a little bit idealistic here and say you sell for like you make like 7 million on it let's just say what do you do with that like what do you do going forward you keep investing in a space or do you like what do you what do you like to do what do you do outside of outside of this well i would just uh of course buy a house you know yeah so i have some security and then uh yeah i would probably not invest ultimate in the nfcs but i will still pump something intense because i love to collect yeah yeah but do you have anything like that you'd like sort of like a dream hobby passion that you would invest in as well like or what are you are you studying like you're in high school i assume right yeah yeah so you have one year left before before university were you going to university are you going to go to university i'm not planning that yet no i'm not sure yet but we'll see yeah can you even concentrate in class right now with all this going on well do you have your twitter open like the whole day like you're just like scrolling through and watching watching the updates i have twitter and discord opened almost all the time yeah so it's hard to follow in class but yeah like why why bother like why why why be here i'm making so much money on this internet i'm not listening to you do you uh have you talked to any of your teachers or your like classmates about it about like what's going on um my best mates know it but uh are they involved too have you gotten them into it uh no i don't think they fully understand it they have like some nifties but they're not like that invested you know okay do you uh are you eyeing any metaverse projects um like the central land or or the sandbox are you invested in any of those are you looking no i'm not i'm not even like yeah i'm not even that sure what those are you know okay about them but okay i'm not uh jumped in i think you you need to you need to take a look at some of these because they're they i don't know i i feel like the the internet is blurring the lines of you know what is digital what is reality like what is physical and with like ar glasses and these sort of virtual reality technologies emerging as like practical applicators i think you're going to need a space for your nfts like to keep them you know to put them on display for your friends to meet and talk about that yeah yeah what is your um has the addition of all these internet friends sort of changed how you view your friends at home and like your relationships at home like do you value those friendships online more or less than the ones you have at home well i i value them a bit less you know because i have not meet them but yeah yeah i'm sure i met some nice friends you know from all over the world you know have you done any like video chats with people in your group or like have you talked to people like over the phone no not the phone or calls but just discord oh but like yeah yeah yeah and uh do they they feel important to you right i imagine like you spend you spend hours with these people talking like are you are you sharing personal like stories or details of your like day-to-day life with each other or is it more about the yeah yeah we talk personal stuff all the time so that's cool cool that is cool you have any plans to meet meet up with these guys in in real life yeah we have some plans you know to meet up like next summer yeah oh nice are there um uh i with the within nft nation or nifty nation is there like um like a conference planned or like you guys gonna do like a beach house or something no no that's not planned yet but like a few people in there are interested in meeting up yeah that's cool man really cool i think that's pretty much everything that i wanted to to talk to you about i'm again i really appreciate you taking the time to meet with me i know you gotta get to class soon but um i don't know if this is like the old man in me but i want to say like don't don't be too reckless with the earnings that you have so far hang on to some of that because you're 18 like you could your 20s is going to be like the the most exciting period of your life try to use that money to make the most of your 20s i don't i don't think that that you don't need me to say that but i just feel like i should um but i'm excited for you i'm really excited for you and um congratulations on on being this aware and paying attention and if you have any advice for me on like projects to like to invest in like throw my way let me know because i'm definitely trying to be more uh pay more attention these these past couple months with the pro the podcast has really shown me like there's a lot of potential here and and i'm i'm interested yeah i'll let you know if i find anything cool man cool and uh if i'm ever in in norway again these coordinates are actually from nordcap but if i'm ever in norway again i'll uh i'll hit you up and maybe we can hang out you're in oslo yeah nice nice okay cool well thanks again for joining me and uh we'll stay in touch yeah sure cool man uh do you wanna do you wanna drop any handles or like mention any projects uh before you go uh yeah my and drop my twitter it's joefe33 cool all right well everybody go follow joey and uh keep an eye out for uh his collection all right man have a nice day uh talk soon yeah watch out

Meet your hosts:

Eddie Contento


Izzy Godina


Mark Fielding


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